Hey y’all! Anita here. This year is flying by, and in a month’s time I’ll be travelling to Nashville for API’s Local News Summit: Local Identity, History and Sustainability and then Perugia for the International Journalism Festival. As always, hit me up if you’ll be there, too. 📞

In January, when polling data indicated a significant lead for Conservative Party leader Pierre Poilievre over his political rivals, the Columbia Journalism Review reached out to interview me for an article “about how/if Canadian independent media is preparing for a potential shift to Poilievre's leadership.” My thoughts didn’t end up making the final piece, titled “Bracing for Poilievre,” but given the pending federal election and Canadians’ recent burst of patriotism in the face of Donald Trump’s tariffs and threats of making our country the 51st state, I figured there was no better time to share my thoughts on Poilievre’s intention to defund the CBC and broader journalism subsidy programs.

Read on for a transcription of most of my video conversation with Lauren Watson, a Delacorte Fellow with CJR:

If Poilievre wins the next election — and I know there are the threats or plans to defund the CBC, but then also he's spoken in different contexts about the Online News Act and of the other crediting systems and how journalism should be making money. So, I'm just looking for broad perspectives on what you're willing to share.

This has been on my mind constantly. And in fact, I just talked to an industry colleague, another publisher of another publication, about this very thing — strategically, about what he was doing to prepare.

[The Green Line is] a publication that has been really deliberate from the get-go about diversifying my revenue streams, and not heavily relying on subsidies or even one or two sources of funding. I do have minor [funding from] government-related programs.

The reason for this was actually not even anticipation of this changing government. It was because of a lot of the failing business models in our industry, period. So historically, our industry has been really heavily reliant on [print] advertising and then digital ad revenue — and we all know what happened to that. So for me from the get-go, I knew that I needed to diversify my revenue streams. It’s actually partnership funding that is my main source of money. Then, there's foundation funding, and very small bits of corporate sponsorships.

But the interesting thing about the Canadian ecosystem that I want to point out (that might help your article) compared to the U.S. is that you can't really rely on single major sources of funding, like a lot of, say, independent media outlets have in the States. They can get millions of dollars from two foundations, and that is a boon, but also incredibly risky. Because when the tides shift, you can find yourself having no funding, and you have to have a bunch of layoffs — and I've seen that happen a lot.

Whereas in Canada, the investment and foundation ecosystem is less developed. You have to actually be really nimble and smart about getting many different streams. So, that's something that I have been very deliberate about from the beginning.

I'm small — we have a staff of about 12, but the vast majority is part-time staff; I have two full-time staff plus myself. So, as a result, it's not like some legacy players that I know that rely heavily on subsidies; they might be in a lot of trouble if all [of it] falls through. It's not as fraught for us, but it obviously means there are going to be some losses, but not enough to at all destabilize [The Green Line]. I've also been slow to hire or to level people up from part-time to full-time staff because I've seen what's happening.

What I do want to say also, though, is there's a flip side to this conversation because we're talking about the potential losses but there's also — I don't want to say benefit because I want to make it really clear that I actually support the existence of the CBC wholeheartedly. And while I certainly do [support the CBC], I think they've made a lot of missteps. I think there's a lot of different ways that they can better support the overall Canadian media ecosystem and for them to not compete with private media companies for digital ads.

[If Poilievre wins], I do think there is likely going to be some level of defunding, especially when it comes to English-language television. I think radio is far-reaching; it'd be really ridiculous for him to get rid of that, and also Radio-Canada is culturally significant and distinct. So, obviously, I really wouldn't think or hope that he would not take any money from that. So, my thinking around this is there will be gaps to be filled that will be left by the CBC, but also by some of the legacy players that have been historically dominant because many of them rely on government subsidies. There will be certain players that are primed to eat that market share. Also, I actually consulted the CBC on how to conduct more community engagement, and they've since expanded that — I don't know if that's going to be able to be maintained. That's where publications like mine, or others that do similar work, can fill in the gaps.

So, we'll see. It remains to be seen as to whether some of those additional things that these publications or the public broadcaster is doing will be able to be continued because I think they're going to be focused more on core offerings. And that's where some of the indie media ecosystem can actually flourish because we fill in those gaps. I think that allows the market to vote for the publications that are actually providing value — and by market, I mean the public vote with their dollars and eyeballs.

That’s actually a line that Poilievre did say recently, which is interesting. He said, let the media make money by winning eyeballs and earlobes, and pull away from having the CBC undercut those types of things. The question I would have around that is: The CBC has a kind of unique place in terms of it doesn't need to try to get eyeballs as much. In theory, in a perfect world, the incentive is to get the story — not the eyeballs — because of the public funding. So, how does that change the incentive structure? I mean, you have incredible solutions-oriented journalism. So, how do you keep your incentive, stay true to the community?

I would challenge the first statement. While that's true in theory, that's actually not in practice what the CBC has been doing because they're competing with private, independent media companies for eyeballs. This is actually one of the reasons why I really wholeheartedly support the CBC and the existence of it — is its mandate. But I also think it should fulfill its mandate more robustly. So, there needs to be some change at the CBC.

In terms of the incentives, I know what you're getting at because I actually worked at venture-backed media outlets in New York City. And when you're really only focused on page views and eyeballs, it ends up kind of leading to this quantity over quality style of journalism that degrades trust in news overall. But I don't really see it that way.

I don't know if Poilievre is as informed about the kind of the emerging models that are getting a lot of traction in journalism. And I'm not somebody who's an advocate of upholding metrics of success that are kind of antiquated in that sense because I think journalism is ultimately a public service that actually should be measured based on its impact — not number of eyeballs because they don't really tell you anything about how useful the journalism and the news is to the public.

This is a big reason why I support the CBC is because I really am nervous about Canadian democracy, especially what Trump is saying [about making Canada the 51st state]. To have a cohesive understanding of our country is something the CBC [provides], and social cohesion comes from that, right?

But there's a lot of change that's happening around the media ecosystem being splintered, and how publications no longer are trying to appeal to a monolith. My specific audience are Gen Zs and Millennials in Toronto, who are fed up with the doom and gloom of existing media that's out there. We are profitable and I can create a profitable enterprise that has a unique value proposition that will incentivize people to pay for the news because of the distinct offering that I have.

For [The Green Line], it's really distinct because it's not just solutions journalism. It's also taking those solutions and actually actioning them, or encouraging people to action them in their real lives, so they can really improve their communities. Also, we do a lot of in-person gatherings, which combat this sense of alienation and remove and isolation that the news encourages. I do think there are smaller publications that probably [can’t capture] the lion’s share of the market, but can still make a good living and incentivize audiences to pay for what they provide.

That's really cool. Are there any other ways that you're bracing for a leadership change, which seems imminent? Obviously, we don't know the outcome. We don't know what's happening. Anything can happen, but if it did switch over to a Conservative government, what are you bracing for?

It's tumultuous and there are a lot of different outcomes that can manifest, so I'm prepared for those outcomes. But I also think it's a really interesting time for the media. I think my biggest fear is what defunding the CBC would do to undermine our democracy, especially during a time that's so fraught — especially since for the first time in our history, the place that's supposed to be our closest ally is turning against us.

And that is very frightening because with what China and Russia are doing, middle and small powers are just really vulnerable, especially ones that are next door to huge hegemons like the U.S. But I also think it's an interesting time because Canada's media ecosystem has been static for a long time and in some ways artificially made to be that way. By the way, I have so much respect for those legacy publications. I'd be really sad if they disappeared or if anything bad happens. I worked — I cut my teeth at those publications.

I also want to say that it is an interesting time and exciting time for emerging media, and I want to see how that plays out organically, as well, with these [potential] changes. So yeah, I'm of two minds. I'm nervous. But because of the position I'm in, I think there's some opportunity to fill in market gaps.

What doesn’t the CBC do that new and emerging media can do?

Well, the one thing that I would say is it's a government agency at the end of the day, so it's very bureaucratic; it's less able to be nimble. And I think it honestly should be taking a leadership role when it comes to defining standards for our journalism. I don't know if they've been successful in that [in recent years]. I feel like in a lot of ways, they've been following what the trends have been.

But I also have a lot of empathy for that because I understand how hard it is to pivot when you're running an organization of that size, and with all those added structures and regulations given that it's a government agency, right? So I think that's one thing — it's slower to innovate, but for obvious reasons and for good reasons sometimes. But yeah, that’s probably the biggest thing that it doesn't do compared to a lot of emerging media. Some of the brightest lights have been emerging media in the last few years in terms of some of the cool innovations that are being recognized globally for what we've been doing.

So, I think ultimately, I don't even like to put it as a binary because I think there's space for all of us. I really believe that it's about supporting this emerging ecosystem, and watering it. We have the seeds of a lot of really cool potential, but I don't think we've been invested in as much. And so, to me, I want to see that thrive.

This transcription was edited and condensed for clarity.

Shout-out

I'm still pinching myself after last weekend, when I received the King Charles III’s Coronation Medal in both the Senate Chamber and Toronto City Hall. I share this incredible honour with my family and friends who supported me at both ceremonies, and more importantly, have uplifted me over the years. ❤️

Many thanks to Senator Andrew Cardozo whose tireless efforts to advocate for Canadian journalism and combat polarization, have made a tangible impact on this country — I'm grateful for your nomination.

The Green Line opportunities: text/video pitches

The Green Line is looking for freelancers interested in short-form and long-form pitches for text-based articles, as well as videos and photography, from experienced reporters based in Toronto that tackle systemic issues in the city through a solutions lens. We offer highly competitive freelance rates. If you’re interested in pitching, please email your pitch, resume and links to three clips to hello@thegreenline.to.

Quick and Clean

• I’ll be holding private one-on-one consultations on media management and culture at the International Journalism Festival in Italy next month, so sign up before spots fill up.

• Listen to my February podcast interview on Journalism.co.uk’s The Journalism Podcast, titled “Community Engagement 2.0 with Anita Li of The Green Line,” hosted by the lovely Jacob Granger.

• My panel discussion at b° future festival in Germany last year, titled “How Narratives Connect Neighbors” is also now available via podcast.

• Watch “Social Infrastructure and Community Safety as Catalysts for Belonging,” a Tamarack Institute panel I spoke on last month, alongside other community builders from Toronto, Vancouver and Waterloo.

How you can support The Other Wave

My professional mission has always been to support the global movement towards more thoughtful, impactful news coverage, and all the ways that manifests. If The Other Wave gets you to think even a little differently about journalism, especially in Canada, then I will have accomplished what I set out to do. And if TOW gets you to take action and support Canadian media outlets — especially ones that strive to be innovative and inclusive — I will have exceeded my expectations.

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